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How can you use those funds to cover operational costs? How it is different from Madoff ?
The statement that the money went to normal operational expenses and was not stolen is laughable. Money was taken in the name of the organizations and was used for their business operations. How is that not stealing or illegal? They were only supposed to take $3.00/transaction for their business operations & profit but obviously needed more and determined that skimming was acceptable.
Good riddance Terry!
This is what we have attorneys for... not suing McDonalds for having hot coffee
Try not to be so transperant.
One can only hope that there are criminal charges here. You can't hide behind the PR spin and woulda coulda shoulda then. In fact- there better be criminal charges or we have a corrupt system. People are sick of the lies of business and government.
Does anyone actually believe the gibberish that this thief is speaking? Who would believe anything that comes out of this clown's mouth?
I really wish I didn’t have a conscious so I could become a “serial entrepreneur” like my new hero, Terry Drayton, and rip off kids and old ladies. Why should I work when I can steal from the naïve???
Terry Drayton is the new poster boy for scumbag …
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Dear Clubs,
You should of went with the F.B.I.
Because they could seize the 'Assets of the Crime'. CMI had no real assets, employees worked from home.
Now he will walk away with his home & toys, because those can not be taken away in a Bankruptcy.
-
O' beautiful, for spacious skies
But now those skies are threatening
They're beating plowshares into swords
For this tired old man that we elected king
Armchair warriors often fail
And we've been poisoned by these fairy tales
The lawyers clean up all details
Since daddy had to lie
This is the end of the innocence.
http://www.lyricsdomain.com/4/don_henley/the_en...
Given that it's clear CMI stole money, committed fraud, lied to investors and clients, Terry's "good intent" (if that even existed) only matters so far as the size of punitive damages or length of his sentence is concerned.
Anyone who has read the correspondence the clubs involved have passed along knows that Terry's known about this issue for years, only admitted it (barely) after being outed by multiple law suits, and has been lying about all of his actions ("you'll get your money soon") since then.
It's classic ponzi scheme behavior ("I never meant to hurt nobody, I just got in over my head, I could have paid the money back if I just got more time.").
BTW - There was no qualified buyer. Not a chance in the world anyone would buy CMI with 100s of lawsuits hanging over their heads. Unless, of course, Terry was lying to the buyer about the state of the company. Wouldn't surprise me.
This Guy 'targeted you' with the finess of Michael Milken and Kohlberg Kravis and Roberts.
You have to think like an MBA (Masters of Business Administration)
Here was a business with 175-million dollar Positive cash-flow. (OK)
These Guys (CMI-S & et.al.) look at that as a Company with a nice Pension Fund (Piggy Bank). (Allright)
So they aquire the Comapany, divest it of the liablities (Employees, leases, etc..). (OK)
Then run it upside-down to 'create' a Bankruptcy (Payout Big Compensation Packages for the Princples). (Follow Me)
Through the Bankruptcy they are able to legaly liquidate the Company, and protect thier personal assets. (Sha-Zam!)
The money is already gone and legally buried. (Thats all she wrote)
Yep,
What Happened Here,
... happens every day.
Better then that he might be able to get a loan from them for $5 Million - which the prosecutor will say is being only used to run a business and keep it open.
The mistake Terry made was losing money on each transaction and trying to make it up on volume. That's how you get $5M in the hole, and yet still believe that it's going to turnaround, or that you can sell the company.
I realize that intent is of no relevance in this situation, but I know for a fact there was good intention. It just manifested eventually as really bad behaviour. Now we'll just have to see what consequences fall out of it.
Don't forget about the so called "big picture" that you're good at.
How can this be called a "sad day" when you aren't going to jail, you aren't paying these people back and now there's nothing left to whine about?
You've got some damn nerve. At least the bank is trying to do some good by seizing the assets in hope that someone gets some retribution.
Terry, just pack up your bags and leave town. Your reputation is forever tarnished. Why not join the rest of the unfortunate people in this economy in the unemployment line?
I wonder if CMI signed a "sweet" deal with Arena sometime in oh November to "maintain" CMI's websites?
If Terry can stoop to transfer his 7M home to his wife, I'm betting that Arena got some honey from CMI before the cards came tumbling down.
Even though CMI is gone, Terry's Arena seems to be still benefitting from the scam.
I wonder if CMI signed a "sweet" deal with Arena sometime in oh November to "maintain" CMI's websites?
If Terry can stoop to transfer his 7M home to his wife, I'm betting that Arena got some honey from CMI before the cards came tumbling down.
Even though CMI is gone, Terry's Arena seems to be still benefitting from the scam.
From Comment #39:
http://www.techflash.com/venture/Complaints_aga...
We just received the following from CMI:
Dear Valued Client,
We are very pleased to update you on the status of your account with Count Me In Corporation. Your account has been paid off in full and you should receive payment early next week which will include cycle 23, due 12/31/08.
Additionally, we have assigned your contract to one of our unimpaired subsidiaries that is and will remain current on remittances. We have not turned credit card processing back on for your account nor will we unless you contact us at support@arenagroupinc.com. Setting up your own credit card account is another option.
Arena Group, Inc. remains in business and we very much want to retain you as a customer. It is important for you to realize that approximately 65% of our customers are in the unimpaired subsidiaries like you and continue to process registrations and payments as they always have.
Sincerely,
Count Me In Corporation
To run the numbers: 2% of $250M is $5M, EVERY year, and everything is legal!(allegedly...)
Gosh, I wish our soccer club was part of the 65% that wasn't affected. So, does that suggest that they targeted what groups they were going to pay? Yuck.
We're pursuing the chargeback option, we see that as the only way we will get any of our missing funds back.
And we're going with another registration provider
Tacky, Tacky, Tacky.
The only operating capital in the plan, I assume, was transaction revenue, not consumer registration funds. The issue here is not company that losing money. It was a fraudulant company using unauthorized monies they were the custodian of.
A very big difference. If the plan all along was to use these funds to run the company, it is indeed another Ponzi scheme.
Now Arena group has been assigned the contracts? These guys think they are above the law.
Terry and his crew got caught with their hands in the cookie jar. Like an adolescent teen, they offer every excuse in the book to justify their despicable conduct.
Count Me Out co-mingled funds that weren't theirs in the first place. Where's the escrow account? Oh yea, it's the bricks and mortar that make up Terry's $7MM crib. No matter what kind of spin they try to serve up, at the end of the day it's simply stealing.
There was no angel investor. . . . One can only hope that Terry will get to don an Orange Jumpsuit with "DOC" (Department of Corrections) on the back.
I'm sure all of the other other Arena Group operating companies (Turnstile, All Registrations, ...) use the same software platform that CMI developed. I wouldn't be suprised at all if they run on the same equipment. Hopefully the court will seize it all and shut them all down before they do this to anyone else.
Does anyone believe that Terry learned his lesson here? What's to prevent him from implementing the same policies that lead him into this mess with another one of the Arena Group companies. Sure, he'll have to bankrupt that company in a year or two, but oh well, it's easy enough to start up another brand.
Someone please stop the insanity.
Hey - how about saying it "IS" your intention to repay????
Where's the honor?
Good grief! This is not a company where the shareholders took a risk and have now lost! These are parents of kids who were simply letting CMI process their registrations.
Hopefully jail time awaits you!
1) The site is up, but that is good for the clubs. They can pull the data off the site as long as it is up. My guess is that will be short-lived once the trustee steps in.
2) There is no doubt that the other companies like Arena will get brought into the bankruptcy. I doubt if TD is trying to hide anything there; he is smart enough to know the trustee will bring those assets to the table
3) On the house quit-claim. It is a red herring. If he is brought into the proceedings personally, that will not sustain scrutiny. Again, I am sure TD knows this, and wasn’t his intent. There is a ton of WA case law on this.
4) Careful examination of the bankruptcy docs and other public docs show that Arena and the other unaffected affiliates are broke too – they will be brought into the proceedings. Sorry, no conspiracy here; he’s not hiding assets. The cupboards are bare everywhere.
5) I am not defending TD but it is a fact that this bankruptcy’s biggest loser after the clubs is Drayton himself. He was the biggest shareholder in the company and had most of his personal wealth tied up in this. This will leave his destitute, which he probably deserves. I know, I know – what about the mansion. Anyone can own a $4m house, and owe $3.9m on it (or, in this economy, have a $3.9m note on a house that’s now worth $2.8m). Again, not defending him, but claims that this is some sort of Bust Out are, well, wrong.
6) I do believe he was looking for a purchaser. That would have been the fastest way out of this for him. I also think those who are interested are simply circling above, watching CMI die, knowing they can swoop down and pick the carcass clean post Chapter 7.
#3. Hmm, what do you think the quit claim intention was?
#4 You are obviouly an insider. Terry?
#5 "I am not defending TD but it is a fact that this bankruptcy’s biggest loser after the clubs is Drayton himself"
You might want to explain that to all the parents and clubs that were bilked. Drayton was in control of his own destiny and made decisions he needs to be accountable for. Biggest loser? Well you are partially correct.
6) Anyone that believes there was a buyer for this comapny is an idiot. If anything there may be some intellectual property there, but not an operational company that would survive this PR mess.
Terry, you shouldn't post here.
4) Careful examination of the bankruptcy docs and other public docs show that Arena and the other unaffected affiliates are broke too – they will be brought into the proceedings. Sorry, no conspiracy here; he’s not hiding assets. The cupboards are bare everywhere.
canadianCMI@live.ca
I urge you to contact the F.B.I.
Working through the US Bankruptcy
would be very difficult for you to collect on any amount due.
The FBI has a broader jurisdiction (International).
Again, dreams of attaching the Business-Bankruptcy to Terry's personal assets (his home), are nonsence, a Bankruptcy court will not take his home.
But if it can be proven that it was a Crime (CMI et.al. created a wire fraud or other) then the assets can be seized and restitution made.
[Like a busting a drug dealer and seizing his home]
I think there is a good case for criminal malace here.
I'm convinced these Guy(s) knew exactly what they were doing.
(see comment #12) and were very unethical (High-Rolling on childrens money - totally unethical)
Find a good Criminal Attorney or get the FBI they will have an assigned Justice Department Attorney procescute CMI et.al.
#3 - On the quit-claim deed, I don't know why. There are a ton of reasons one may want to execute something like this, but talk with any attorney conversant in this and they will tell you that trying to keep property hidden this way is as effective as hiding under your school desk in the event of a nuclear attack.
#4 - I am no insider, just someone who has been around the block on these issues a few times. (and to the others who asked, I use PACER to access court records.
#5 - Hey, I am upset too. My family is out of $ thanks to Mr. D. I just think people are being naive if they think Drayton is someone laughing his way to the bank.
I'm not sure how you would know that Arena was broke, along with the other affiliates unless you were involved somehow.
I don't read anyone saying Drayton is laughing to the bank. The question, aside from his investment, what consequences will there be for the people involved in this. It should hurt well past investment loses, as good operators have that happen all the time.
The more you read his quotes,those of his PR firm and company memos, you really have to wonder what is going on here. PR firm, that is another laughable decision he made...
See:
http://graphics8.nytimes.com/images/2008/12/21/...
I feel bad for TD- its easy for a gang of anonymous bloggers to publicly flog the guy. Big and brave. Some of you secret commenters should be very proud of what you said. Better yet, share it with your kids, show them what you wrote. Thats the great thing about the web, anybody can play the hero behind the one-way mirror.
TD did wrong, and he hurt lots of small organizations. He is paying for it now and will pay more later, but he is standing out there alone and being more of a man about it than most of the commenters that precede me here.
Now hold your horses here.
Yes hardworking entrepreneurs do sometimes mess up. Entrepreneurs tend to look at the big picture and not the details and hence if this was all about some "mistake", one can certainly emphatize with him.
I think the problem here isn't that he messed up, but that he made some very shady decisions... like continuing to accept registrations KNOWING that he wouldn't be able to pass those money back... and setting up subsidiaries to protect HIS interest but letting the affected customers hung out to dry.
Both Terry's actions and words show that he was more interested in protecting his self interest (does anyone still remember him crying about the fact that his kids will now have to suffer getting an education at a state college?)
If you want a case where an entrepreneur honestly messed up... see the story on iFulfill. I'm not an insider, but this was a case customers were hurt when it went under, but unlie CMI you really couldn't fault the founder for looking after his self interest.
http://www.businessweek.com/technology/content/...
Now hold your horses here.
Yes hardworking entrepreneurs do sometimes mess up. Entrepreneurs tend to look at the big picture and not the details and hence if this was all about some "mistake", one can certainly emphatize with him.
I think the problem here isn't that he messed up, but that he made some very shady decisions... like continuing to accept registrations KNOWING that he wouldn't be able to pass those money back... and setting up subsidiaries to protect HIS interest but letting the affected customers hung out to dry.
Both Terry's actions and words show that he was more interested in protecting his self interest (does anyone still remember him crying about the fact that his kids will now have to suffer getting an education at a state college?)
If you want a case where an entrepreneur honestly messed up... see the story on iFulfill. I'm not an insider, but this was a case customers were hurt when it went under, but unlie CMI you really couldn't fault the founder for looking after his self interest.
http://www.businessweek.com/technology/content/...
No one is complaing about audit financials. this is about use of funds and fraud.
Challenge of trying to run a company? You STUPID DOLT. This is not about running a company, it is about using funds that were custodial, not investor.
The devil is in the details? Let's see, your revenue is per transaction. You used monies that were not yours to begin with to run the company.
To be clear, I have no vested stake here. I have run many companies, had investors, and this is a sham,
Posts like yours are either ignorant, although I am not sure anyone can be that stupid, or you are a family member at risk.
This whole thing is BS, and although I am not involved, I just sent an email to the FBI asking about wire fraud because of posts like yours.
Property taxes @ 1%:
7,000,000 x 0.01 = 70,000/year
In order to capture 70,000,
as a rule of thumb Sales-Income is three times that amount.
3 x 70,000 = $210,000
Its fair to say that the Mrs was paying at least half,
$210,000/2 = $110,000 gross income to pay Taxes.
-
Get the picture,
#1. He was being compensated ridiculously to much for a Startup
#2. A $110,000 gross income only covered the HOuse Taxes @ 1% in the example, what about the regular daily expenses of life, (Gas bill, electric bill, car ins., kids ....)
#3. Add to it all other 'Business Expenses' they charged to the Company (Biz Dinners, Country Club, travel ....)
#4. The Layers share (Legal Fees)
#5. With two Principle executives, you can, multiply by 2x.
-
He said that "all of it can be accounted for",
I bet it can be.
Numbers don't lie, people who live beyond thier means do.
Property taxes @ 1%:
7,000,000 x 0.01 = 70,000/year
In order to capture 70,000,
as a rule of thumb Sales-Income is three times that amount.
3 x 70,000 = $210,000
Its fair to say that the Mrs was paying at least half,
$210,000/2 = $110,000 gross income to pay Taxes.
-
Get the picture,
#1. He was being compensated ridiculously to much for a Startup
#2. A $110,000 gross income only covered the HOuse Taxes @ 1% in the example, what about the regular daily expenses of life, (Gas bill, electric bill, car ins., kids ....)
#3. Add to it all other 'Business Expenses' they charged to the Company (Biz Dinners, Country Club, travel ....)
#4. The Layers share (Legal Fees)
#5. With two Principle executives, you can, multiply by 2x.
-
He said that "all of it can be accounted for",
I bet it can be.
Numbers don't lie, people who live beyond thier means do.
I'm a fan of freedom of the press and all that, but I just read through the comment string here and was disappointed by it. Cruel gossip and nasty speculation, where people who don't know their facts get to publish comments alongside others who have knowledge. The problem is, the rest of us can't differentiate between them. Its not journalism, its more like a bad night on reality TV, and I think it detracts from the integrity of your reported work.
I'd suggest youconsider eliminating the comment section from TechFlash.
I'm a fan of freedom of the press and all that, but I just read through the comment string here and was disappointed by it. Cruel gossip and nasty speculation, where people who don't know their facts get to publish comments alongside others who have knowledge. The problem is, the rest of us can't differentiate between them. Its not journalism, its more like a bad night on reality TV, and I think it detracts from the integrity of your reported work.
I'd suggest you consider eliminating the comment section from TechFlash.
"Cruel gossip and nasty speculation"
You just fall out of the sky?
Countmein's damage is well documented and fact.
Drayton continues to make stupid moves and comments, people respond.
Reality TV? What he has done and continues to do would be hard to believe if it were on TV.
I don't think John will eliminate this as much as you would like him to Terry, I mean John.
"Cruel gossip and nasty speculation"
You just fall out of the sky?
Countmein's damage is well documented and fact.
Drayton continues to make stupid moves and comments, people respond.
Reality TV? What he has done and continues to do would be hard to believe if it were on TV.
I don't think John will eliminate this as much as you would like him to Terry, I mean John.
The non-profit organizations should be dilligent in getting the families to dispute the credit card charges. This gets the charge reveresed on the card holder's account and then the card holder can pay the non-profit sports orgs directly. Its inconvenient but at least there is financial recourse in which 100% of the funds can be recovered.
It is unlikely that liquidation of CMICs assets will result in payback of more than pennies on the dollar so non-profits' time is best spent focusing on being made whole through the charge back approach.
In the mean time the bankruptcy judge will liquidate CMIC and infuse that money into paying creditors.
Drayton lost money in this business, he has not absconded with funds. Sounds like he's personally invested and lost $1.5M + $500k if the posts are accurate and he's lost his ability to run a business in our country as well. This has also destroyed his other businesses including Ramp Group, Arena Group, etcetera. He may also have to answer in other courts as well.
Terry sucks, the economy sucks, business sucks. Ok lets get over it.
This is a rare situation in which creditors of a bankrupt company have some recourse other then settling for pennies on the dollar so make haste and get the money back in the non-profits coffers.
The non-profit organizations should be dilligent in getting the families to dispute the credit card charges. This gets the charge reveresed on the card holder's account and then the card holder can pay the non-profit sports orgs directly. Its inconvenient but at least there is financial recourse in which 100% of the funds can be recovered.
It is unlikely that liquidation of CMICs assets will result in payback of more than pennies on the dollar so non-profits' time is best spent focusing on being made whole through the charge back approach.
In the mean time the bankruptcy judge will liquidate CMIC and infuse that money into paying creditors.
Drayton lost money in this business, he has not absconded with funds. Sounds like he's personally invested and lost $1.5M + $500k if the posts are accurate and he's lost his ability to run a business in our country as well. This has also destroyed his other businesses including Ramp Group, Arena Group, etcetera. He may also have to answer in other courts as well.
Terry sucks, the economy sucks, business sucks. Ok lets get over it.
This is a rare situation in which creditors of a bankrupt company have some recourse other then settling for pennies on the dollar so make haste and get the money back in the non-profits coffers.
Beleive me, the depositions, including all former officers, are being prepared. I dont think the victims will just be left looking at CMI for damages. Moreover, that press release was disengenious on many levels and a lame attempt to spell out his defense. Check the records, I dont think they ever responded to the Alaska involuntary filing. This appears to have been the plan all along. We have been told an investor is forthcoming for many months and if one was there, they would have avoided filing. Moreover, NONE OF US SHOULD HAVE EVER BEEN PUT IN THE POSITION OF FUNDING HIS BURN RATE AND BRDIGING A FINANCING. Some people think that being a start-up entitles people to steal, as a former CFO of a start-up I find that amazing to say the least.
1. Terry's background is finance. He majored in it in Calgary, Alberta.
2. Terry worked on Bay Street in Toronto, Canada's Wall Street, as a corporate banker.
3. Terry has raised a lot of money over the years posturing himself as the finance guy. Never once claiming to suck at "details".
4. Terry was integrally involved in all financing plans for virtually every venture he was involved with. Just a few details there.
5. While they were trying to raise money for the last few months financial statements were available to all potential investors. Were these fabricated?
While mistakes surely were made, no one responsible as the CEO is not aware of the burn rate of their cash. Hence Terry knew months ago that the money he was using to pay opex had to come from customers. This is what is most wrong. The deception accrued and the failure to cut the losses was driven by incredible hubris and an inability to ground in reality. It happened at Home Grocer and happened here again.
- Notified the clubs that were out that there was no money to pay them. And Immediately suspended further registrations.
- Tell everyone that he (Terry) would fund the operating cost of the business from his OWN pocket (and not the money taken from registrations)
At least you could tell that he was trying to put the best interest of the clubs in mind. In fact Terry did neither, he not only neglected to warn new registrants the money would be lost, one would also think the operations of the business from Oct-Jan continued to eat off from the monies that should've gone to the clubs.
This is not that hard anyway. There is no way they could not know the monthly op ex burn. Their revenues are the processing fees earned and maybe a little interest expense, NOT the volume of payment flowing through. In addition the revenues must be heavily seasonal since they coincide with registrations primarily of seasonal youth sports. They ran a ponzi scheme with money that wasnt theirs that they had no way of repaying from operations. Many companies have similar business models and don't fail, they just have the right capital structure, as well as a reasonable and scalable amount of fixed costs relative to their customer base.
It seems Terry sucks at the Big Picture too
yeah, more work for me
But the Hells Angles M.C. & Outlaw M.C.
still want thier money back
Software Services Sales Representative
About the Job: Software Services Sales Representative Earn $90K+ (Base and Commissions) Arena Group / Count Me In
Count Me In is a Bellevue, WA based online services company that is growing at a rate of 50%+ a year. We have a very friendly work environment that is based on respect, collaboration and teamwork. Our business is booming and we are hiring four dedicated individuals to join our veteran sales team.
We are hiring hardworking college graduates who are honest, articulate and
thorough. Successful candidates will be very comfortable using computers and
the internet.
We are seeking well spoken and well written professionals with integrity who
understand the nuances and importance of relationship selling.
What we do:
Count Me In helps organizations grow by providing compelling integrated
solutions that include online registration and payment services, online store and league management solutions to sports organizations.
Who we help:
We help save our clients’ participants time and effort by making it easier to
research, register, pay and participate in all sorts of programs, classes and
events. We provide services to more than 1,000 organizations including the
United Nations, the US Government, Corporations, Associations, Parks and Rec Departments, Sports Organizations, Red Cross Chapters, Schools, Foundations,Event Management Companies, Camps, Faith Based Organizations and other entities.
Come join our winning team!
Compensation: $33k - $42k base, plus commission, stock options and benefits. Up to $90k+ first year.
The site is up and running – I think you were just experiencing a glitch. Until the court-appointed trustee directs otherwise, the sites will remain up.
Small consolation, I know, but wanted to let you know so you can plan accordingly.
Thanks,
Mark Firmani
mark@firmani.com
I am sorry you are angry. My role is simply to share what information I can that might help those who were affected by CMI. It might not be of help to you, but is to many if the notes we get are any indication.
At this point, I am doing this on my dime, on my time. If you have issues with that, feel free to contact me directly – I opt to use my name and include my e-mail address when I post.
Mark Firmani
mark@firmani.com
This story is a "tech titanic".
Were you an investor? It really doesn't make sense why you would associate yourself, with this mess, for free.
Nor does it make sense that the company personal can't address questions themself. the whole thing is odd.
Can't you see that I am only here trying to point out that all of you idiots who dealt with Terry are just that - idiots!!
Then I get to puff out my chest and tell you that I don't need to hide behind a screen name and I provide my email address. Don't I sound like the big tough class bully who threatens to beat everyone up?
Please email me at Mark.Fraudmani@countingmymoney.com if you want to meet my in the playground after school and I will show you how tough I am.
http://www.arenagroupinc.com/ProgramDetail.aspx...
Another pyramid-block in Terry's ponzi scheam
WhoIs Info:
Visit AboutUs.org for more information about arenagroupinc.com
AboutUs: arenagroupinc.com
Registration Service Provided By: Arena Group, Inc.
Contact: support@arenagroupinc.com
Visit: http://arenagroupinc.com
Domain name: arenagroupinc.com
Administrative Contact:
Arena Group, Inc.
Terry Drayton (support@arenagroupinc.com)
+1.4256389000
Fax: +1.4254552257
1750 - 112th Av NE
Suite A200
Bellevue, WA 98004
US
Technical Contact:
Arena Group, Inc.
Terry Drayton (support@arenagroupinc.com)
+1.4256389000
Fax: +1.4254552257
1750 - 112th Av NE
Suite A200
Bellevue, WA 98004
US
Registrant Contact:
Arena Group, Inc.
Terry Drayton ()
Fax:
1750 - 112th Av NE
Suite A200
Bellevue, WA 98004
US
Status: Locked
Name Servers:
dns1.name-services.com
dns2.name-services.com
dns3.name-services.com
dns4.name-services.com
dns5.name-services.com
Creation date: 10 Dec 2007 21:01:47
Expiration date: 10 Dec 2009 21:01:47
---
Domain Name: countingmymoney.com
Creation Date........ 2006-05-14
Registration Date.... 2006-05-14
Expiry Date.......... 2009-05-14
Organisation Name.... Kathaleen Poe
Organisation Address. Rt. 2 Box 309
Organisation Address.
Organisation Address. Lost Creek
Organisation Address. 26385
Organisation Address. WV
Organisation Address. UNITED STATES
Admin Name........... Kathaleen Poe
Admin Address........ Rt. 2 Box 309
Admin Address........
Admin Address........ Lost Creek
Admin Address........ 26385
Admin Address........ WV
Admin Address........ UNITED STATES
Admin Email.......... kathaleen_poe@yahoo.com
Admin Phone.......... +1.3047453644
Admin Fax............
Tech Name............ YahooDomains TechContact
Tech Address......... 701 First Ave.
Tech Address.........
Tech Address......... Sunnyvale
Tech Address......... 94089
Tech Address......... CA
Tech Address......... UNITED STATES
Tech Email........... domain.tech@YAHOO-INC.COM
Tech Phone........... +1.6198813096
Tech Fax.............
Name Server.......... yns1.yahoo.com
Name Server.......... yns2.yahoo.com
--
Feel free to play the; ...
I'll provoke you, just to clain tobe the Victim ... got your own sake or Terry's.
That's soooo 1990 - Murphy Brown.
If you got money from Terry, then think about where it came from:
The Single-Mother who sent it in for her son's soccer team
The Painting Contractor/Father who works 12-14 hr days so his daughter can go to Field Hockey Camp
The recently Layed-off Parent of two, who scatched the team dues together by collecting aluminum cans.
Think of that money with the respect it deserves.
What Terry did was wrong, ... you can be a part of it ... or not.
...dick
Many in my circle have simliar thoughts but in a less hostile manner. If I were to post, the presentation would have been softer.
Mark?
Think about it.
I went back and looked at my posts and really don’t see it, but as someone once told me, you can never argue with someone’s feelings.
Regardless of my detractors’ thoughts, my only reason for participating in this discussion is to help those who have questions with charge-backs and to occasionally add information that could help separate fact from fiction in an unbiased way as I can. I do apologize if some have interpreted my comments as aggressive.
Mark Firmani
mark@firmani.com
The question still stands why are you "doing this on my dime, on my time"?
#82 I agree
-§-
Ibid.:
http://www.usdoj.gov/usao/eousa/foia_reading_ro...
... Any defendant who undertakes a fraud scheme against anyone and then carries out
or conceals the scheme by filing for bankruptcy or by filing any documents in the
bankruptcy, violates this statute. This section is also applicable to the defendant
who tries to defraud someone by falsely asserting that a case is in bankruptcy in
order to forestall the victim's actions. The essence of this statute is the
existence of a fraud scheme or attempted fraud scheme and any use of the bankruptcy
system to carry out the scheme. For example, this statute should be applicable to
petition mills that are set up to defraud the landlord of a few months rent, or to a
bust out scheme. Likewise, a defendant who is actively defrauding anyone violates
this statute by filing bankruptcy to delay or conceal the fraud.Case law from the
wire, bank, and mail fraud statutes, 18 U.S.C. §§ 1341, 1343, and 1344, which have
similar language, will be very useful in determining the scope of this statute.
...
-§-
The Trustee has a duty to: Report of Violations of Bankruptcy Fraud
Ibid.: http://www.usdoj.gov/usao/eousa/foia_reading_ro...
http://www.usdoj.gov/usao/eousa/foia_reading_ro...
9-41.010 Report of Violations of Bankruptcy Fraud
... Section 3057(a) of Title 18, United States Code, requires a judge, receiver or
trustee having reasonable grounds for believing that any violation of laws of the
United States relating to insolvent debtors, receiverships or reorganization plans
has been committed, to report all the facts and circumstances to the appropriate
United States Attorney (USA).
-§-
Continued next post
-§-
18 USC - U.S. Code - Title 18: Crimes and Criminal Procedure
18 USC 3057 - Sec. 3057. Bankruptcy investigations
Ibid.: http://www.usdoj.gov/usao/eousa/foia_reading_ro...
(a) Any judge, receiver, or trustee having reasonable grounds for believing that any violation under chapter 9 of this title or other laws of the United States relating to insolvent debtors, receiverships or reorganization plans has been committed, or that an investigation should be had in connection therewith, shall report to the appropriate United States attorney all the facts and circumstances of the case, the names of the witnesses and the offense or offenses believed to have been committed.
Where one of such officers has made such report, the others need not do so. (b) The United States attorney thereupon shall inquire into the facts and report thereon to the judge, and if it appears probable that any such offense has been committed, shall without delay, present the matter to the grand jury, unless upon inquiry and examination he decides that the ends of public justice do not require investigation or prosecution, in which case he shall report the facts to the Attorney General for his direction.
-§-
Continued next post
-§-
18 USC 1343 - Sec. 1343. Fraud by wire, radio, or television
Ibid.:
http://www.usdoj.gov/criminal/cybercrime/18usc1...
§ 1343. Fraud by Wire, Radio, or Television
Whoever, having devised or intending to devise any scheme or artifice to defraud, or for obtaining money or property by means of false or fraudulent pretenses, representations, or promises, transmits or causes to be transmitted by means of wire, radio, or television communication in interstate or foreign commerce, any writings, signs, signals, pictures, or sounds for the purpose of executing such scheme or artifice, shall be fined under this title or imprisoned not more than five years, or both. If the violation affects a financial institution, such person shall be fined not more than $1,000,000 or imprisoned not more than 30 years, or both.
-§-
TIPS:
How to Report Cyber and IP Crime
http://www.usdoj.gov/criminal/cybercrime/
How to Report Computer- and Internet-Related Crime
http://www.usdoj.gov/criminal/cybercrime/report...
The Internet Crime Complaint Center (IC3)
http://www.ic3.gov/default.aspx
-
If you have not contacted the FBI yet, please do so immediately. It is important to engage the FBI, as;
... "The personal opinion of the judge or trustee as to whether a criminal offense has occurred or as to whether criminal proceedings should or should not be commenced is in no way binding on the USA or determinative of the issues involved. Similarly, the decision of an officer of the Bankruptcy Court not to refer a matter to the USA should not be determinative in any prosecutive analysis." ...
A Trustee will be appointed in this matter, when Trustee contact information becomes available, send copy too them immediately with your information.
Attorney for Petitioner(s):
Nordic Skiing Association of Anchorage, Inc.
Campfire USA Alaska Council
and
Matanuska Soccer Club
Peter L. Slinn
Stoel Rives LLP
One Union Square
Suite 3600, 600 University
Seattle, Washington 98101-3197
Telephone: 206-624-0900
Facsimile: 206-386-7500 Telex: 703455
http://www.stoel.com
Peter L. Slinn
http://www.stoel.com/showbio.aspx?Show=463
Peter L. Slinn Lawyer Profile on Martindale.com
http://www.martindale.com/Peter-L-Slinn/1770100...
1. How can a Corporation operate for 8 years, with 175 million dollars of cash-flow, without the oversite of an Accounting Firm? (Did CMI use a Firm or at least H&R Block?)
2. I don't understand why the IRS has not conducted an Audit, Certainly the IRS been shorted as well.
Where can the Fedaral Tax filing information for CMI be found online?
http://uk.reuters.com/article/fundsNews/idUKLNE...
(Reuters) - A list of clients who invested money with accused swindler Bernard Madoff was made public on Wednesday.
The 162-page document filed with the U.S. Bankruptcy Court in Manhattan named Columbia University, legendary baseball player Sandy Koufax and Madoff's attorney Ira Lee Sorkin as some of the clients.
Among the thousands of others named were Madoff's family members, including his sons, Mark and Andrew, and his brother, Peter.
The Manhattan offices of Bernard L. Madoff Investment Securities LLC was declared a crime scene after the veteran investment manager's December 11 arrest.
Madoff, 70, was arrested for what authorities have described as the biggest Ponzi scheme in history. In a Ponzi scheme, early investors are paid with money from new investors.
UBS AG, Bank of America Corp, BNP Paribas and Citigroup Inc are some of the other Madoff clients who have been named on the list.
The deadline for Madoff's customers to make a claim with the Securities Investor Protection Corporation SIPC.L is July 2, the trustee Irving Picard said.
The case is Securities Investor Protection Corp v. Bernard L. Madoff Investment Securities LLC 08-01789 in U.S. Bankruptcy Court for the Southern District of New York (Manhattan).
(Reporting by Bhaswati Mukhopadhyay and Ajay Kamalakaran in Bangalore; Editing by Sharon Lindores)
John: where's CMI's list?
You have slipped into "radio silence"!
Would you answer the above questions directed specifically to you?
Yes?
No?
A select few of your choosing?
Either way, just let us know as it's the right thing to do.
Signed,
The Voices of TechFlash Readers
Sorry, been out battling a bad cold.
So Jung was right, and there is a
collective subconscious, and you are the voice of the entire site. Very cool. I wish we had such unanimity in Washington DC.
To your questions:
1) My motivations for working on this project are mine. I don’t feel the need to explain my reasons to anyone but my team
2) Regarding plans by CMI, my role is limited, and I’m not involved in those discussions.
So a question for you: how many nom de plumes do you use here? Is it possible that most of these posts are just yours? That would validate your belief that you’re the “voice of TechFlash.” Any reason you don’t use your real name?
Mark Firmani
mark@firmani.com
Also this is off Mark's website. If anything you would think he would be on the other side of this thing.
"Firmani + Associates, Inc. understands that recreation is your business. That is why we approach the work we do for recreation clients with an intense focus on a sound business strategy that delivers effective results.
We develop and implement programs that help recreation companies build and maintain life-long relationships with customers who are fanatical about organized sports, outdoor recreation and indoor hobbies."
The Internet Crime Complaint Center (IC3) is a partnership between the Federal Bureau of Investigation (FBI), the National White Collar Crime Center (NW3C), and the Bureau of Justice Assistance (BJA).
IC3's mission is to serve as a vehicle to receive, develop, and refer criminal complaints regarding the rapidly expanding arena of cyber crime. The IC3 gives the victims of cyber crime a convenient and easy-to-use reporting mechanism that alerts authorities of suspected criminal or civil violations. For law enforcement and regulatory agencies at the federal, state, local and international level, IC3 provides a central referral mechanism for complaints involving Internet related crimes.
File a Complaint >>
http://www.ic3.gov/complaint/default.aspx
-
Links
The Internet Crime Complaint Center (IC3)
http://www.ic3.gov/default.aspx
The National White Collar Crime Center (NW3C)
http://www.nw3c.org/
The Bureau of Justice Assistance (BJA)
http://www.ojp.usdoj.gov/BJA/
the Federal Bureau of Investigation (FBI)
http://www.fbi.gov/
http://www.rfcexpress.com/lawsuit.asp?id=43897
http://dockets.justia.com/docket/court-wawdce/c...
Thanks for the tip. I followed it up here, with links to the court case.
http://www.techflash.com/venture/Rival_sues_Cou...
John Cook